Les Schwab Brake Job - overpriced to the tune of $700 per axle (2024)

Introduction

Almost everybody who owns a car will one day need to have some sort of brake service performed.

I have just gone through the process of contacting literally dozens of garages to get estimates ranging from the big names such as Firestone, Aamco & Les Schwab to lots of highly recommended independent mechanics. I even contacted an official dealer for an estimate.

While labor rates varied and some marked up parts more than others, there were basic similarities in how everyone worked. Your car is spec'd for ceramic brakes so we'll quote you for those. Yes we'll machine the rotors and this is the price but if you need new rotors this is the price.

Les Schwab

Which is why I am writing about Les Schwab. Les Schwab do things differently. They don't quote for brake pads, they quote for loaded calipers. While telling me verbally they would try to machine the rotors, they presented for my signature an estimate containing new rotors even though they had measurements indicating the rotors were only 25% worn. They didn't disclose the brake pad measurement nor explain the interpretation of rotor measurements that they did disclose. On the phone they quoted me for ceramic brakes but in person they advised ceramic would be $60 more.

Having noticed multiple signs of misinformation or withheld information in a process that was clearly slick and orchestrated (they greet you in the car park, a receptionist takes details, they bring the car round to the front door when you leave), and intrigued by such a different approach, I set out to understand what was going on. I thought through how they went about the sale, what information they disclosed, what they said and sometimes more tellingly, what they didn't say, and also what the underlying economics were.

The more I pieced everything together, the more I began to realize that Les Schwab runs a very unique sales approach as part of a extremely clever business model that is designed to generate excessive profit through delivering less to the customer while making the customer think they are getting more. In addition, by having a different pricing approach, direct comparability is made more difficult vs their competition.

It's very clever, in some ways one has to admire how clever it is. But the bottom line is that not only do you pay more, you get a worse result while having the wool pulled over your eyes, and that's just plain insulting to the customer.

How Les Schwab will make $700 per axle more from you

Firstly, how did I calculate they would be more expensive by $700 per axle?

Very simply, after checking my brakes and measuring my rotors, Les Schwab quoted me $425 for work they said was required. The work would be warrantied for 3 years / 25k. Based on the quality of the pads and rotors that they quoted, plus their approach of changing the rotors when not required, over 6 years / 60k, you could expect to do this service twice for a grand sum of $850 if you were to trust their advice.

In the end, I purchased my own ceramic brake pads and took them to my local mechanic for a grand total of $150 for install, cleaning, greasing and machining the existing rotors. The pads are lifetime and the rotors should last for 60k at least.

At issue here is that regardless of the status of your brakes, you will most likely be quoted exactly like I was or something very close. You will be verbally told that they will try to machine the rotors but the worst case is that they'll need replacing. You'll sign the estimate on the basis of this verbal understanding and return to find they needed to replace the rotors.

The sales process and business model that is in place dictates that approach and targeted outcome. When you go through the process, unless you are an informed customer, you won't realize that you're setting yourself up for paying $850 over 6 years vs $150. You go through a process designed to persuade you that you are getting a better result justifying the amount being charged. The $98.50 for labor includes a brake fluid flush. Wow that's cheap - the others charge $100 extra for that item alone. They put on calipers not just new pads. Great, that's better than everyone else.

But this is not the reality. If you pay $425 and receive great rotors, great calipers, great pads - in short a brake system overhaul that performs great and lasts a lifetime, AND you needed all of those elements, then it's only an average to good deal.

But you most likely don't need that and in any case you're not even getting that! You're getting basic brakes and basic rotors (probably worse than what you have), potentially not so good calipers and on top they'll be worn out in 3 years time and you'll need to have the work done again and pay $425 again.

The Caliper Con

Les Schwab do not quote for brake pads, they quote for remanufactured loaded calipers. The price quoted ($121 in my case vs $107 on Amazon), does not seem expensive, especially when they quote it together with Labor of $98.50 which includes a brake fluid flush.

But the truth behind the calipers is as follows;

  • It is highly unlikely that you need calipers. I know I didn't.
  • The brake pads are not ceramic and won't last. My OEM pads are ceramic. Ceramic were $60 extra.
  • Les Schwab's out of pocket for the calipers is probably ~$40 as they make money on the good quality original calipers discarded from your vehicle which are then remanufactured
  • The labor charge of $98.50 is effectively nearer $180 when you factor in the profit on the calipers

So by upselling to calipers, you end up with inferior pads and they end up actually charging a very high labor rate.

The Rotor Racket

Les Schwab have a huge incentive to sell you rotors.

Machining rotors costs from $20 to $50 a pair and uses labor time, training, machine wear and tear. The new rotors they quoted me were $179 for two. The cost on Amazon? $64 for two! Which puts them in the realm of cheaper rotors. That's at least $115 profit before any profit onrecycling used rotors which in my case were still usable!They also take minimal time to install.

So by upselling you to rotors, you end up paying significantly over the odds, giving up potentially better rotors, and they boost their labor rate again!

Summary

Overall I estimate that after the true cost of parts, Schwab would make over $300 for an hour of their labor while sticking you with basic brakes and basic rotors.

However, when they present this to you, you are being sold on receiving calipers worth $120 and new rotors worth $180 with only a small seemingly reasonable charge for their labor which also includes a brake fluid flush. On top of this you will receive a 3 year / 25k warranty (that Les Schwab have cleverly moved the risk of to the rotor and caliper manufacturer rather then themselves because they are not machining rotors or installing pads - they are just assembling!)

Interestingly, it is being presented as $300 parts and $100 labor, but it is in fact $100 parts and $300 labor!

If you knew that, if it were presented that way, would you pay it? No way!

It is incredibly clever and I am all for getting rewarded for being clever, but as I said, in this case you are not getting a superior result for your $425, you're getting pretty much the most basic parts that will stand up to a 3 year / 25k warranty whereas so many pads and rotors now come with lifetime warranties

If you didn't know better, you'd be happy. And with the slick sales and service process, many customers are blissfully unaware of what they've done.

The Alternatives

I purchased Wagner Thermoquiet brakes which match original equipment specifications. For my car, this meant they were ceramic. Their usual price is $30 to $40. I found them for $29 while a $15 rebate was running. So this was a steal.

a) Option 1 - Install yourself

There are plenty of websites and videos to help you do this. You can take off the rotors and have them machined by a local shop or an auto parts store for $20 to $50 a pair. You could also just buy new rotors.

b) Option 2 - Mechanic Install

If you have a mechanic that you trust, then for relatively little cost this might be a good option for you. Supplying your own parts can save money. You can buy rotors and return them in the event your mechanic was able to machine your rotors.

c) Option 3 - Use one of the other chains or a dealer special

Firestone use the same Wagner Thermoquiet brake pads and perform the install and machining for less than $200. There are often discounts ranging from $35 to $50 available.

I would consider going this route if I could be sure of the competency and honesty level of the particular franchise. One advantage of going this route is that some of these chains really stand behind their work. I know personally that Firestone do. The disadvantage is that they often have the same incentive to upsell you to new calipers and rotors when you don't need them.

When might be a good idea to use Les Schwab?

If you genuinely need new calipers as well as pads and if you need a brake fluid flush then you could get a very good deal out of Les Schwab. Just make sure you don't buy rotors from them and that they machine them for a reasonable price, say up to $50 per pair.

Les Schwab Brake Job - overpriced to the tune of $700 per axle (2024)

FAQs

How much should a brake job cost per axle? ›

The average cost of labor is between $80 and $120 per axle. The average brake pad replacement total is between $115 and $300 per axle (parts + labor). Most cars have two axles.

How much does it cost to replace brake pads in Les Schwab? ›

When it comes to the cost of repairing and replacing brake parts, there are many factors to consider. Overall, costs may be more than $500 per axle, depending on the service provider and name on the building. If you go to a dealership, you're likely to pay more.

Is 800 too much for a brake job? ›

A complete brake repair that includes pads, rotors, and calipers typically averages between $200 and $800 depending on the vehicle and parts used.

How much is too much for a brake job? ›

A complete brake repair — one that includes pads, rotor and caliper replacement — typically averages between $300 and $800. However, depending on the make and model of your vehicle, you can easily spend more than $1,000 on a complete brake job.

Is 500 too much for brakes? ›

If your vehicle does indeed need both of these replacements, it will be $250-$500 per axle — or $500-$1,000 for the entire vehicle — to replace both the brake pads and rotors. At the end of the day, the numbers above are just estimates and vary from vehicle to vehicle.

How much should an axle cost? ›

On economy cars, the axles can cost between $100 and $150 each. Higher-end vehicles and heavy-duty applications can cost anywhere from $300 to over $1500 for each axle. Talking to your service advisor is the best way to figure out what you should expect to pay when replacing your axles.

Does Les Schwab do brake pad changes? ›

While other shops might do the bare minimum and replace only worn-out brake pads, we service the full system. To ensure your safety and satisfaction, that includes quality parts, expert installation, and a look at other components that may affect braking performance.

How long is Les Schwab brake warranty? ›

Should a failure in workmanship or materials occur within 25,000 miles or 36 months (whichever comes first) of the brake service performed, Les Schwab will replace the defective parts and perform the labor, all free of charge. This Full Warranty is honored at hundreds of Les Schwab Tire Centers around the West.

How much is labor to change all 4 brake pads? ›

The average front brake pad replacement cost is between $115 and $300; this is about the same as the cost of rear brake pad replacement. The cost of replacing all four brake pads, including parts and labor, ranges between $230 and $600 for all four wheels.

How many hours does a full brake job take? ›

A complete brake job is a thorough inspection of every brake part in the system, which explains why the task can take a while. A complete brake job has an estimated labor time of anywhere between four and six hours, depending on several factors.

How to tell if rotors are bad? ›

Some common symptoms of bad rotors include vibration or pulsation in the steering wheel, high-pitched squealing noise when braking, shaking steering wheel, brake pedal pulsing, vehicle taking a long time to stop, loud bangs while braking, large edges on the outer part of the brake rotor, and scratch marks on the rotor.

How much should rear brakes and rotors cost? ›

Based on our research and also our own experience, we found that the average price range for a brake service is $250 to $500 per end of the vehicle (front or back). Figure on average a brake pad and rotor replacement has an average cost of $350 for each end of the car (front or back).

Can I just replace brake pads and not rotors? ›

You don't always have to replace rotors when replacing brake pads. The frequency of rotor replacement depends on factors like rotor quality and driving conditions. However, if your mechanic finds warped or worn rotors beyond the minimum discard thickness, they recommend replacing them together with brake pads.

How long do rotors last? ›

As a general rule, you should get your brake pads replaced every 10,000 to 20,000 miles to keep wear to a minimum. When it comes to your rotors, you have a bit longer. Your rotors should be replaced between 50,000 and 70,000 miles to keep your brakes in peak health.

What is considered a full brake job? ›

The standard list involves replacing the front disc brake pads, resurfacing the rotors, replacing the rear drum brake shoes, resurfacing the drums. bleeding the brake lines, inspecting the system for leaks or other problems, and of course, adjusting the parking brake.

How much should it cost to replace brake pads and rotors? ›

Based on our research and also our own experience, we found that the average price range for a brake service is $250 to $500 per end of the vehicle (front or back). Figure on average a brake pad and rotor replacement has an average cost of $350 for each end of the car (front or back).

How long does a full brake job take? ›

How long does a brake repair or brake replacement take? Under normal circumstances, brake repairs or replacement will take on average 1-2 ½ hours; however, based on the number of repairs, it could run a little longer.

How much is labor to replace a brake caliper? ›

The average cost for a Brake Caliper Replacement is between $760 and $825. Labor costs are estimated between $114 and $144 while parts are priced between $646 and $681. This range does not include taxes and fees, and does not factor in your unique location.

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